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Further to 'Our Story. Macquarie Bank and Perpetual Ltd'.

Posted by on in Consumers Fight Back
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Yesterday, Feb 4th, I blogged 'Our Story. Macquarie Bank and Perpetual Ltd'.  You can find that here:

http://www.bfcsa.com.au/index.php/entry/our-story-macquarie-bank-and-perpetual-ltd

We got a letter today that has prompted me to add the following:

First, in summary:

We were evicted in March 2011.  Our home was sold in December 2011.  Since then we have had 'no fixed address'.

Our loan was $537,000.  The bank took a long time to put our home on the market, all the while running up costs with the security fence, guard dogs and security guards - asset stripping??  (See my post of Feb 4th to understand this.)

We had a written appraisal for our home by the same agent who who sold our home for the bank for $1.6M.  With the approval of Perpetual Ltd, HWL Ebsworth Lawyers and Macquarie Bank, he sold our home for $832,000 - half his written appraised value. 

Now to the 'recent events'. 

The bullying continues.

A few months ago we received our first communication regarding our property since around mid 2011.  That means we hadn't heard anything for approximately two and a half years.  

The 'communication' was two letters, one to me and one to my husband, demanding payment to QBE Insurance of over $119,000.  QBE claim to have paid to Perpetual the 'shortfall' of what Perpetual Ltd claim we owed them.  There was no invoice, just the letters, making an unsubstantiated claim that we owed them money. 

We wrote to QBE Insurance, politely requesting they send an itemised account with proof of claim.  They didn't send it.

Instead, on January 21st, two copies of a 'Notice of Intention' demanding said payment were sent to my husband and me by National Credit Management Ltd - which happens to have the same address as QBE Insurance.  It began, 'Despite earlier attempts to negotiate payment of this outstanding debt, the amount of $119,693.87 has not been received. ... If payment is not received within 48 hours from receipt of this letter we will have no option but to recommend to our client that this matter is escalated immediately'.

Now, if my memory serves me correctly, there was no 'negotiation', just a demand.  Also, we had requested from QBE Insurance proof of claim, including an itemised account.  This is a reasonable and lawful request.  None came.

On January 28th we responded to the threatening letters that came from National Credit Management Ltd, reminding them that unsubstantiated claims have been made, and outlining what was required in order to prove their claim.

But these bullies continue to act as being immune from lawful requirements - which of course, our governments and our courts have let them do. 

National Credit Management Ltd didn't send any proof of claim either.

Instead, today Feb 5th, we received another two identical letters - one for me and one for my husband - dated January 28th from Hudson Lawyers.  Another letter of threats with menaces.  'We act for QBE Insurance Ltd on instructions from National Credit Management Ltd, Commercial Agents, in respect to an outstanding account of $119,693.87.  We are instructed to commence legal action to recover this debt if full payment is not received on or before 04/02/2014.'  They then go on to tell us that all recoverable legal costs ordered by the court will be added to the debt and we will be liable for that further expense.  They were even thoughtful enough to include a payment slip at the bottom of the page. 

Still no invoice, no itemised account, and no proof of claim

There are some facts that mitigate against the claim:

1.  The bank approved a loan based on the value of a technically 'illegal' house - yet sold the property 'for land value only' saying the house was illegal and thus had no value.  They should never have approved the loan when the house was 'illegal'.
2.  The loan has many hallmarks of being predatory and/or imprudent, and Perpetual Ltd and Macquarie Bank refuse to send us our full LAFs.
3.  Legal title to our loan and mortgage was sold to the Securitisation Trust's Security Trustee - meaning Perpetual Ltd had no standing to foreclose.  It's interesting to note that that Trust was delisted on 18/09/2012 'following full redemption of all remaining notes of the Trust' - 23 years before its maturation date.  Why?
4.  We have a written appraisal for our property of $1.6M by the same agent the bank appointed to sell our property.
5.  Our property was sold for $832,000, having first been advertised (for 'land value') at $950,000, and an offer made of $882,000.
6.  Then Perpetual Ltd and HWL Ebsworth allowed a $50,000 reduction of the offered price 'so the new owners can make the house legal' - a process which, by the way, will require nothing like that amount of money.  (See my previous post as to why the house was technically 'illegal'.)  Thus the final selling price of the property was $832,000 - barely half it's appraised value.
7.  Perpetual Ltd must therefore be claiming they had costs of $414,000.  I expect part of that will include the unpaid 'interest', but the bulk must be being claimed as 'costs'.  I come to that amount by adding the sale price of $832,000 + the claimed 'shortfall' of approximately $119,000 = $951,000.  Deduct the loan amount of $537,000 and it comes to $414,000. 
8.  If Perpetual had bothered to contact us about the 'illegal' house, we could have clarified things.   We have the documentation proving our house was built legally, and that the Council failed to notify the Titles' Office of the facts.  Perpetual Ltd didn't care about such triflings - the first we heard of this issue was from a friend after the sale.
9.  Perpetual Ltd were intent on asset stripping in preparation for the final assault that is happening now.  It would have taken little effort to correct the Titles' Office records before they sold our property - but that would have left Perpetual Ltd without the very convenient excuse to sell cheaply.

If Perpetual had sold for the appraised value, we would have come out of this with nearly $650,000 - even with their ridiculous costs.  Even if they had sold for $300,000 less than the appraised value, we would still have come out of this with $350,000.   But that's not what Perpetual Ltd, QBE Insurance, National Credit Management Ltd, and Hudson Lawyers want.  Their intent is to bankrupt us.

Thus the current assault including intimidation, threats with menaces, and refusal to provide proof of claim as required by law.  We aren't surprised.  It's the type of belligerent, high-handed manner in which Perpetual Ltd, Macquarie Bank, and HWL Ebsworth Lawyers have behaved all along. 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 05 February 2014

    Susan, if one didn't read this as a blog you would think its a script for a TV tragic drama plot. If only their was a senior legal person barrister type who could advise or mentor you for free, the way you and your family have been treated is an utter disgrace and your plight should be brought to the attention of parliament. Its persecution, intimidation, harassment, words cannot fully describe the indignities that you have had to suffer.Tonight just before bed I read about ASIC chasing and charging brokers over LAF fraud, the usual slap on the wrist stuff and then they mentioned some lenders who were also involved and all they got was an Enforced Undertaking to behave themselves,that's it. The one thing you have in your favour is all the evidence you have accrued, for Gods sake keep it and multiple copies in safe locations because these underhanded bastards would do anything to get hold of any files or hard drives that incriminate them. Susan your day will come and you will be able to publicly out everyone who wronged you loud and clear. BFCSA is100% behind you and only hope that all your pain and suffering will soon come to an end and that your reinstated and compensated to your original position before the LAF and all the perpetrators of these horrendous deeds are brought to justice.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 05 February 2014

    Thanks Neil. Yes. I believe our 'day will come'. Even have someone who sees the 'script' angle and will seriously consider putting legs on that idea when the time comes. :)

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 05 February 2014

    gfs246

    Susan
    your time will come where justice is served to those who have inflicted this pain upon you & your family.
    YOUR TIME WILL COME
    it may be distant, but it will happen.
    keep your faith & continue the fight.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 05 February 2014

    Thanks for your comments. We are no longer in Preston (refer to my previous post and your comment), but appreciate your expressions of support and encouragement.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 05 February 2014

    This is not strange that you have received the "Letters of Demand." Did you know what was the outstanding debt.? after the sale of your house. I believe the creditors can chase you for 5 years or more, not sure exactly how long?. I spoke to our Solicitor re: bankruptcy and his comment was "Bring it on" If you have nothing then it would be of little consequence to be bankrupted. It will cost the lenders or credit management company to instigate the bankruptcy not you. While it is a particularly unpleasant thing to think about, or have happen to you, if you have no hope of actually paying the outstanding amount and you have fought valiantly for justice against the fraudulent activities that went along with the loan, then it may be your only option until the banksters and their rackets are brought to justice. Still keep demanding the documents to confirm you position. If it goes to court then just speak up and tell the judge the circumstances. It is up to the lenders to prove that you owe the money and the judges are very aware of this. The courts don't look favourably on no substantiating evidence. They cannot pluck a figure out of the sky and say "Hey cough up X amount"

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 05 February 2014

    I agree that it certainly isn't 'strange' that we are now being chased for $ that could easily have been available if the bank had fulfilled their duty to obtain a 'fair price' for our property. Of course, the bank didn't care because their Mortgage Insurance covers any alleged 'shortfall'. That fact, along with the fact that our regulators aren't simply 'asleep on the job' but are actively condoning the banks' behaviour, means Perpetual Ltd have no motivation at all to do the right thing by us. Like you, I have come to understand that I don't need to be afraid of bankruptcy. Nevertheless, knowing that personal and business bankruptcies are the flow-on from the banks' and regulators' criminal behaviour is enough to motivate me to keep standing.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 05 February 2014

    Yes Susan grit your teeth for we are all right behind you. Mine was sold also for little more than land value when the building insurance was even higher than the VG. Not a kit home or a run down shack either but of such solid construction (re-inforced concrete) and even larger than yours it would never have burnt down, nor collapsed if the walls went missing. I really cannot believe what they are putting you through but guess there are more similarities than we think re what was going on the US. Have now read a few articles and seen a few u tubes where people who have had their mortgages paid off for a few years are being foreclosed on and forced out by different banks to the bank they had their mortgage with!

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Thanks Organza. So sorry to hear that you have also lost your home. I think we haven't gotten much below the surface re what's really been going on here in Australia. I have had so many people say, 'But this is Australia, not America' - as if the banks here were somehow squeaky clean and I had no right to mention what is happening in the USA. There are many problems with that thinking - not the least being the growing evidence to the contrary. Denise is doing an amazing job to that end.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Yep. You are like myself. This sort of rot from the lenders only motivates me to stand up for all who have been ripped off. We like you are still putting up with the Nab's thugs persecuting us. I cannot write about it at the moment as I have commented before and this seemingly is going on forever, BUT as soon as I am able and the timing is right I will put it out in the open. I think members will be absolutely blown away with what we have had to endure all contributed to the Nab and it greediness. Think about it, what is the point of bankrupting you at the moment. They are not going to gain anything!!!!!! so the dirty deed will be probably be put on hold.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Unlike you Susan I was so terrified flying solo as I then was I opted to take a lowly offer 2 days before the auction to avoid foreclosure yet the outcome is so very similar re the sale price. Now even thinking I might go and buy a metal detector to try and turn up a few more golden nuggets for there is nothing like digging through the dirt to strengthen the resolve I am discovering! You just never know what might be hidden below ground level do you?

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Our home sold for about 1/3 of the Nab Valuation. Just shows they do not give a rats. We leased property adjoining our home rural block and that caused havoc. Nab did not believe we leased it and although Nab had the title documents it appears Nab could not read plans. This went on and on until finally Nab had a survey done and what do you know we weren't telling porkies. Meanwhile Nab mortgagee agent and the real estate agent had rifled through our possessions on our leased property. No sorries, no apologies, nothing. Fools

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Gfs246

    Susan's story must be shown to the senators.
    It is not normal what happened to her.
    And what has happened to many others and just might happen to me.
    We need to get her story to the media.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Gfs, it never stops and the bankster bastards never let go. Susan and Nabbed Nanna even though they both lost everything and were evicted, that was not enough they now have to play the banksters mind games which try and de-stable them further by demanding more. Gfs you are about to take on your lender and FOS( who are the banksters mouthpiece any way), just go through the motions regardless of the outcome because you can state you went through all the proceedings as dictated by FOS. This will help buy you time and by then the Senate hearings should have kicked off and hopefully BFCSA's presence and voice will help expose ASIC and the banksters to the wider Australian public and at long last force a response from our reclusive government.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Gfs. Remember with FOS to ask plenty of questions as well as present your case and facts. Be wary of giving them everything you have because remember the banksters get full access to it all. You do not have that luxury.!!!! The Banksters are replying to FOS to vindicate themselves and the more info you provide the more they sift and destroy valuable information from their files. Lodge your dispute with care and only state what the case is about and why. Let the banksters have their say and then as it goes on further bring out you facts and proof without blowing the whole lot at once. Be careful and wary of your FOS person. !!!! Do not get on you soap box about anything although at times you would like to. The guy we had turned like a brown snake when I made a derogatory comment about the Broker being an ex Bank Manager at Nab. Our Fossy had also been an ex bank manager and was not impressed with my comments about Nab bank managers. Good Luck xx

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    Gfs246

    Thanks for the advice guys.
    It's needed.
    I will follow the BFSCA rules of guidance and pray to god also.....
    I have time on my side, your right NT?
    And yes Nanna I will ask many questions.
    I have come into this at a crucial time....re: the senate hearings. May this be on my side!!!!
    It's unfair that we go through this, but as I have said b4..... It's us for a reason.
    EVERYTHING is happening for a reason.
    We have the strength that others may not.
    EG: Susan, NT , organza, Nanna ,Ali, change.......your all still fighting it.......and so will I

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Thursday, 06 February 2014

    I agree with you strongly Gfs that Susan's story must be read out to the Senators loud and clear. Let her voice be amongst the most powerful ones to make our Government sit up and take notice. They cannot continue to deny the cruelty done to innocent people.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Friday, 07 February 2014

    Just plain disturbing

    When you look at this whole situation Susan it does not even appear that the Bankster Bastards have made this about making profit it has become a vendetta. We constantly hear in the press about bullying and how it is not to be tolerated at any level, making huge song and dance about the playground situation with our kids and some unfortunate suicides that have gained much publicity over cyber bullying but this case of yours is beyond extreme. This situation you are in should be publicised and made front page news, while our Treasurer is having his ROOT and BRANCH INVESTIGATION and with the upcoming Senators ASIC Investigation is about to start because this is the unacceptable BULLY TACTICS that no one should be exposed to. It would be very interesting to see exactly who bought you property too. I would be none too surprised you will track it back to a Bankster himself, a liquidator, councillor or someone very closely related to one of these parties, they none of them do things without an ulterior motive.
    My advice to you is to seek out a strongly convicted journalist (speak with Denise first as she will guide you to one) that will bring your horrendous journey out into the open. What you have been exposed to is outlandish and totally unacceptable no matter what the circumstances. I feel like after reading about your ordeal, that I have just finished reading a novel about the American south one hundred years ago and you are a victim of a KKK raid.
    We have now seen over the last week or so some of the suffering that has been thrust upon BFCSA Members we all will never get back the days, weeks and years of pursuing justice. I feel sure that many members did not write because mentally they are so drained they could not put themselves through reliving the ordeal that has cut them down and destroyed any resemblance of the normal lives that we or they once had. As for perhaps any of the regulatory bodies that may take the time to look at this site for any of them to say this is not a systemic problem and was not a premeditated plot by Banksters you probably should not have the job you are in as you are obviously under qualified, lack intelligence. The Banksters in their backroom follies created a fall guy in "The Broker" to be the foot soldier. He did all the hard work of finding the customers armed only with the taught "BANKSTER SPIEL", convinced customers to use their hard earned equity that had been built up over decades of hard toil for a better future and to be self supporting in the "GOLDEN YEARS". This all backed up by constant bombardment by "GOVERNMENT" that the pension may not even be here for us in years to come, so people fell victim to trying to self support. The pressure of knowing their was a need to support ourselves into our later years made predatory lending a doddle for Brokers selling "TOXIC SELF IMPLODING MORTGAGES". All taught to Brokers by the "BANKSTER BASTARDS" who were------ "APPROVING"------ UNAFFORDABLE,TOXIC, ILLEGAL, PREDATORY,MALADMINISTERED,IMPRUDENT AND DOWNRIGHT JUST PLAIN CROOKED PRODUCTS all with our "REGULATORS" blessings. We all know that "BROKERS" -------- DO NOT AND CAN NOT ------------ APPROVE LOANS, the only ones in this chain of events that has the authority to "APPROVE LOAN/MORTGAGES" are the 'LENDERS/BANKSTERS" themselves NO ONE ELSE.
    So all this said the absolute disgraceful bombastic Mafioso style treatment that Susan and her Family have been subjected to could all have "never" taken place if the BANKSTERS had "never" approved an unaffordable loan and even more importantly our "REGULATORS" applied the "LAWS OF LENDING" as they were designed and written to be used.
    Keep up the fight Susan you and your family have shown unbelievable bravery and resilience and should be commended for your positive outlook and attitude.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Friday, 07 February 2014

    Yes, our Broker encouraged us to 'use the equity in our home' BUT, I really think he is a victim and in hindsight, didn't realise what was really going on. We now realise thanks to BFCSA, he was taught a Bank Strategy and we followed that advice.
    We had owned our home outright in 2002 and, as you say, along with the government's talk of there not being pensions available by the time we would have been eligible, and the need to generate support for ourselves, the idea that using our equity to help to that end, was something that seemed reasonable at the time. The thing we didn't know was that the bank was sitting behind all this, salivating at every NO DOC application they could get their hands on, and approving them without regard to affordability. That is in direct breach of S25.1 of the Bankers Code. As I said before, we thought we could trust the banks to make a decision with our best interests in mind. How niaive of us!
    Now, 12 years down the track, we've learned we cannot for a moment trust the banksters; we can't rely on (most of) our politicians (I've tried quite a few); we can't get justice out of our 'justice' system; the lawyers used by the banks are not interested in facts or the truth but only interested in winning and getting their very lucrative fees (at what point do their consciences get seared - during their training, or once out on the job ... ); and once they have you on the ground, they use intimidation and threats of further loss, uniformed and armed police to coerce you into submission.
    Amazingly, these misguided people believe they have the 'high ground', and justify their behaviour with 'we're just doing our job'. Without BFCSA we would never have figured out who was at fault: the Banks!

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Friday, 07 February 2014

    Gfs246

    Pray to god the Senators have hearts and can see all this pain in our stories of personal financial grief. It's in humane what's happening.
    It's so god dam depressing on some days. May we find strength to all fight on and ensure TRUTH re the Banks will unfold! We cannot rely on ASIC as they are protecting banks not us.

  • doyla66
    doyla66 Wednesday, 12 February 2014

    Somewhere in these deals a mate of a mate gets a very cheap house.

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